00:06:37 <shoe> oh, I guess I can't run mapnik while I reimport osm2pgsql: ERROR:  relation "planet_osm_polygon" does not exist
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01:21:35 <nikq> Mapnik Trac: Ticket #502 (Map buffer_size not accounted for within GDAL plugin scaling logic) updated | http://trac.mapnik.org/ticket/502#comment:4
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08:28:54 <nikq> Mapnik Trac: Ticket #502 (Map buffer_size not accounted for within GDAL plugin scaling logic) updated | http://trac.mapnik.org/ticket/502#comment:5
11:00:42 <dodobas> yello
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16:34:02 <mattbUK> Hello folks - new to mapnik have installed and got the the point were I want to generate_xml but when I do it I get: UserWarning: Failed to find font face '' in TextSymbolizer in style 'area-text' - Can anyone help I'm going crazy!
16:34:23 <Ldp__> did you install mapnik trunk?
16:34:56 <mattbUK> been following these instructions http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mapnik/Fedora_Installation
16:35:53 <Ldp__> which step are you on?
16:36:09 <Ldp__> there is no generate_xml on that page
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16:37:17 <mattbUK> I've been plugging away for hours - so have probably cocked it right up
16:37:39 <mattbUK> I got confused when I didn't have a set-mapnik-env at set 12
16:37:42 <Ldp__> that page looks outdated with respect to the mapnik stylesheet and the current handling
16:37:52 <mattbUK> can you point me to a newer version?
16:37:54 <Ldp__> exactly
16:38:10 <mattbUK> what I tried was: ./generate_xml.py osm.xml osm-local.xml --user tilegen --dbname gis --symbols ./symbols/ --world_boundaries ./world_boundaries/ --accept-none
16:38:10 <Ldp__> the README in mapnik will do
16:38:52 <Ldp__> argh, again with the osm-local.xml in there :(
16:38:56 <Ldp__> that's not needed
16:39:07 <Ldp__> springmeyer: that part of your script causes the most confusion :)
16:39:18 <mattbUK> ahhh
16:39:28 <mattbUK> so is it ./generate_xml.py osm.xml --user tilegen --dbname gis --symbols ./symbols/ --world_boundaries ./world_boundaries/ --accept-none
16:39:56 <mattbUK> I've been working on this for about 12 hours now am completely cross eyed - I stated of know what I was doing now I'm totally borked
16:39:58 <mattbUK> :-)
16:40:06 <Ldp__> yes, that will only create a few files in the inc/ dir. Specifying the osm-local.xml makes a serialized copy of osm.xml, so you can set up multiple stylesheets with different settings
16:40:13 <Ldp__> not needed in almost all cases
16:40:50 <Ldp__> osm.xml pulls in the files in the inc directory
16:41:06 <Ldp__> did you perform step 8 (yum install mapnik) ?
16:41:14 <mattbUK> yep did step 8
16:41:15 <Ldp__> which mapnik version is in Fedora these days?
16:42:08 <mattbUK> hang on I'll check
16:42:45 <Ldp__> yet I don't know why generate_xml.py would give you UserWarning: Failed to find font face '' in TextSymbolizer in style 'area-text'
16:43:09 <mattbUK> looks like 0.5.2
16:43:16 <Ldp__> ugh, ancient
16:43:20 <mattbUK> bum
16:43:29 <mattbUK> I'll get it from svn can compile it my self
16:43:41 <Ldp__> that would be my next advice
16:43:52 <Ldp__> http://svn.mapnik.org/branches/0.7.1-dev/
16:44:07 <mattbUK> ok I"ll try that now
16:44:08 <mattbUK> thakns
16:44:27 <Ldp__> but plz zap the yum install before you install your own version
16:44:40 <mattbUK> will do
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16:48:35 <Ldp__> after that, ignore step 12 from the OSM wiki page, and substitute generate_xml.py (detailed in the OSM 'mapnik' svn dir from step 9)
16:49:23 <Ldp__> and change step 14 to omit lines 3 and 4 (source and customize-mapnik-map)
16:49:33 <Ldp__> feel free to update the wiki, too :)
16:50:13 <mattbUK> this is gonna take me a while it's moaning about the version of boost which taken an eon to compile ;-)
16:50:22 <Ldp__> which boost do you have?
16:50:26 <mattbUK> 1.34
16:50:32 <Ldp__> 1.34 is okay for 0.7.x
16:50:54 <mattbUK> Checking for Boost version >= 1.34... no
16:50:54 <mattbUK> Boost version 1.34 or greater is requred
16:50:55 <mattbUK> :-(
16:51:07 <Ldp__> you might specify the right boost include dirs on the scons line
16:51:15 <Ldp__> the configure one, the first you run
16:52:05 <mattbUK> didn't have boost-devel :-)
16:52:07 <Ldp__> python scons/scons.py configure BOOST_INCLUDES=/your/path BOOST_LIBS=/your/other/path
16:52:13 <Ldp__> ah :)
16:52:16 <mattbUK> doh ;-)
16:53:45 <mattbUK> nearly there just some other deps to sort
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17:01:52 <mattbUK> i'm at python scons/scons.py install now
17:03:22 <Ldp__> that's fast
17:04:25 <mattbUK> Good old DL380G6 server with dual quad core processors
17:04:29 <mattbUK> :-)
17:05:04 <mattbUK> noisy as hell though
17:05:49 <Ldp__> I'd be more worried about the leccy bills
17:06:18 <mattbUK> yeah you're not kidding
17:07:03 <mattbUK> crud :-( /usr/include/boost/python/object_core.hpp:309: error: ‘object_base_initializer’ was not declared in this scope
17:07:03 <mattbUK> scons: *** [bindings/python/mapnik_coord.os] Error 1
17:07:03 <mattbUK> scons: building terminated because of errors.
17:07:31 <Ldp__> hmm, for build errors, I have to defer to springmeyer
17:07:44 * springmeyer looks up :)
17:07:54 <mattbUK> watcha
17:07:58 <springmeyer> hey Ldp__
17:08:25 <springmeyer> thats an error I've not seen before
17:08:50 <springmeyer> any chance you have two boost versions installed?
17:09:06 <mattbUK> possibly let me check
17:09:26 <mattbUK> nope just boost-1.34.1-17.fc10.x86_64
17:09:30 <dkb> Greetings.  In Quantumnik can you view a vector layer on top of the Mapnik canvas?  I have a shapefile with roads that I want to compare to OSM data.
17:10:19 <Ldp__> mattbUK: boost-devel has the same version?
17:10:34 <springmeyer> dkb: no, thats desirable, but currently the two modes of Qnik are separate (eg. viewing existing xml vs. generating xml from QGIS layers)
17:10:51 <mattbUK> Ldp__: boost-devel-1.34.1-17.fc10.x86_64
17:10:53 <springmeyer> mattbUK: okay, hmm
17:12:20 <springmeyer> mattbUK: can you http://dpaste.com the 'config.py' file inside your mapnik sources?
17:13:36 <mattbUK> springmeyer: http://dpaste.com/165635/
17:13:46 <springmeyer> mattbUK: what arch are you building on?
17:14:10 <springmeyer> k, config is fine...
17:14:27 <mattbUK> 2.6.27.5-117.fc10.x86_64 #1 SMP Tue Nov 18 11:58:53 EST 2008 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
17:14:27 <nikq> Ticket #1: no such ticket. (list index out of range)
17:14:38 <springmeyer> mattbUK: okay
17:14:44 <springmeyer> and what does this give?
17:14:59 <springmeyer> g++ -version
17:15:31 <mattbUK> ++ (GCC) 4.3.2 20081105 (Red Hat 4.3.2-7)
17:15:36 <mattbUK> opps
17:15:37 <mattbUK> g++ (GCC) 4.3.2 20081105 (Red Hat 4.3.2-7)
17:16:18 <springmeyer> okay
17:16:27 <dkb> springmeyer: ok, thanks.  Can you switch back and forth between the modes?  Once I create the Mapnik canvas I can't seem to get rid of it to view other layers.
17:16:57 <springmeyer> dkb: no, not really, its buggy
17:17:13 <dkb> the plugin or qgis?
17:17:17 <springmeyer> er, I've not put to much effort into making that work well
17:17:33 <springmeyer> Qnik
17:18:09 <dkb> is it technically possible in QGIS to have Qnik as a layer?
17:18:21 <springmeyer> yes
17:18:46 <springmeyer> in QGIS trunk
17:19:03 <springmeyer> and once that is released that will be the game plan
17:19:28 <springmeyer> essentially any Mapnik XML that is loaded externally will be available as a "Plugin Layer"
17:20:01 <springmeyer> mattbUK: what python version?
17:20:17 <mattbUK> springmeyer: Python 2.5.2
17:20:28 <springmeyer> k
17:20:34 <springmeyer> have you installed python-devel ?
17:20:49 <mattbUK> aha!
17:21:08 <mattbUK> I am now horribly embarrased!
17:21:17 <springmeyer> SCons should not have let you by without that, but perhaps SCons is broken in that regard
17:21:37 <mattbUK> I'll run through again - thanks
17:21:54 <springmeyer> otherwise (if you have python development headers) this is likely a Boost + g++-4.x compiler bug
17:22:47 <springmeyer> mattbUK: because I've never seen these errors on ubuntu with boost 1.34, but debian systems have also patched the heck out of boost 1.34:
17:22:51 <springmeyer> http://patch-tracker.debian.org/package/boost/1.34.1-14
17:24:06 <mattbUK> ok cool thanks I'll see how it goes it's all good so far
17:25:58 <mattbUK> python scons/scons.py
17:25:58 <mattbUK>  
17:26:00 <mattbUK> all good
17:26:30 <mattbUK> python scons/scons.py install
17:26:32 <mattbUK> all good
17:36:27 <dkb> Do most people manually edit and use external entities in the Mapnik xml file instead of relying on automated xml generator like generate_xml.py?
17:36:59 <Ldp__> generate_xml.py only generates/modifies 3 files, no biggie
17:39:02 <dkb> If I need to use the same xml on different servers it seems like I would need to manual edit the file to make it more modular instead of using generate_xml.py unless I am missing a better workflow.
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18:06:46 <Ldp__> dkb: define 'same xml' plz?
18:12:20 <dkb> I'm just trying to understand creating a mapnik xml that is more maintainable and reusable.  One location in a file to change DB settings, one location if I want transparent "background" etc.. Just a more general, modular setup.
18:13:08 <Ldp__> it's not modular enough already?
18:13:26 <Ldp__> there is 1 spot to change db settings, one spot to change map background
18:13:40 <Ldp__> 1 spot to define image paths, shapefile paths, etc
18:14:54 <dkb> Ok, that's what I'm not getting.  I was passing that info such as db settings on command line to generate_xml
18:15:13 <Ldp__> which generates 3 files in the inc dir, and that's it
18:15:23 <Ldp__> it's a one-off command
18:15:39 <Ldp__> after that, the stylesheet is set up for you
18:16:09 <Ldp__> you could also take the 3 .template files in inc, create copies without .template, and change those few settings in there by hand
18:16:28 <Ldp__> that's the extent of what generate_xml.py does
18:18:05 <dkb> so which file am I editing if I want to change the color scheme for a highway for instance and then use that same color scheme on another server with different db settings for instance?
18:18:33 <Ldp__> ah, that part isn't modular yet, sorry
18:19:45 <dkb> so basically I would have to manually modify the osm.xml and make it modular myself, correct?  So that I can reuse it with different db for instance.
18:19:54 <mattbUK> wooohooo image.png generated!
18:20:04 <Ldp__> different db is just editing inc/datasource-settings.xml.inc
18:20:19 <mattbUK> next problem - getting mod_tile to work (hehe)
18:20:45 <dkb> after modifying settings.xml.inc I would have to run it through generate_xml.py again?
18:20:49 <Ldp__> no
18:21:13 <Ldp__> the files in inc/ are pulled in by the XML parser, when mapnik reads the osm.xml
18:22:16 <dkb> I don't see any reference to "inc" in my osm.xml file though, or is mapnik pulling those in itself?
18:22:37 <Ldp__> <!DOCTYPE Map [
18:22:38 <Ldp__> <!ENTITY % entities SYSTEM "inc/entities.xml.inc">
18:22:38 <Ldp__> %entities;
18:22:38 <Ldp__> ]>
18:22:58 <Ldp__> and inc/entities.xml.inc includes other files, etc
18:23:32 <dkb> there are no entity definitions in my xml that generate_xml produced
18:23:58 <Ldp__> at a guess: you did generate_xml.py osm.xml osm-local.xml ?
18:24:16 <dkb> yes
18:24:27 <Ldp__> don't :)
18:25:02 <Ldp__> only specify osm.xml
18:25:16 <dkb> ok, I see it in the original osm.xml file
18:25:22 * springmeyer scrolls
18:25:25 <Ldp__> osm.xml will pull in the rest of the inc/ files
18:25:37 <springmeyer> realizes it would be better named "setup_xml.py"
18:25:54 <Ldp__> springmeyer: that --noent version is really confusing to everyone
18:26:01 <dkb> where the heck did I get instructions to create that local xml file
18:26:40 <springmeyer> Ldp__: yep, I see
18:26:49 <Ldp__> dkb: http://trac.openstreetmap.org/browser/applications/rendering/mapnik/README ?
18:27:15 <springmeyer> dkb: the modular way to do it is to check out that svn folder wherever you want to render tiles :)
18:27:22 <springmeyer> not to generate anything from that...
18:27:26 <Ldp__> actually, it's been a while since I last ran generate_xml. You don't have to pass any osm.xml file
18:28:04 <Ldp__> springmeyer: that bit about 'Advanced users may want to create multiple versions' should be rewritten
18:28:17 <springmeyer> k
18:28:31 <Ldp__> to what you say above: check out that OSM mapnik dir at another location, set it up once, and use it
18:28:56 <springmeyer> I should get svn ci to clean up
18:29:00 <dkb> ok, now I get it.. I had been modifying the xml file created by generate_xml..  uhg
18:29:37 <springmeyer> dkb: ya, that is not the idea
18:30:06 <Ldp__> dkb: yeah. The way I built it was modular, but then springmeyer came along :)
18:30:49 <Ldp__> dkb: so to recap: run generate_xml.py only with the arguments, and don't specify osm.xml
18:30:59 <springmeyer> Ldp__: fine by me to stash that script in a separate folder and forefront readme to recommend manual setup
18:31:12 <Ldp__> dkb: then whenever we commit a new version, all you have to do is 'svn up'
18:31:28 <dkb> Ok Thanks.. I 'll redo it again correctly this time.
18:31:37 <Ldp__> springmeyer: the script isn't that bad, the documentation seems to be the cause here
18:31:49 <springmeyer> k
18:31:55 <Ldp__> dkb: svn will not touch your local settings files
18:32:10 <Ldp__> bbl, @dinner
18:32:17 <springmeyer> to that extent, dkb - please advise on where docs led you wrong, how I could help fix them up
18:34:44 <dkb> I will look into later today
18:35:06 <dkb> It may have even been a website
18:36:00 <mattbUK> any one able to shed any light on this? http://pastebin.com/kv7UUxJK
18:38:01 <springmeyer> mattbUK: your likely need to re-import data with latest osm2pgsql default.style
18:38:13 <mattbUK> ahhh of course!
18:38:33 <springmeyer> column "lock" does not exist <-- likely just added
18:43:23 <mattbUK> spingmeyer: with version of osm2pgsql shoudl I be use?
18:44:07 <springmeyer> it is always ideal to use svn trunk
18:44:29 <springmeyer> but the key thing here is to get at least the default.style that is in svn trunk osm2pgsql dir
18:44:40 <mattbUK> thought I had - but I've got a bit muddled in the 20+ hours I've been doing this now ;-)
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18:48:00 <mattbUK> spingmeyer looking at my default.style it has the lock column defined
18:48:38 <springmeyer> 21 hours ago: http://trac.openstreetmap.org/changeset/20177?new_path=applications%2Frendering%2Fmapnik
18:48:42 <springmeyer> mattbUK: hmmm
18:49:10 <springmeyer> maybe its not going in the right table... not sure
18:50:08 <mattbUK> i'm not massively familiar with psql is there an equiv of mysql explain?
18:51:07 <springmeyer> ya, prefix any query with EXPLAIN
18:51:30 <springmeyer> but mattbUK, honestly I would just edit out that keyword to get things working if I were you
18:51:31 <mattbUK> ok I'll ahve a dig see what I can see
18:51:48 <mattbUK> out of the detault.style
18:51:50 <mattbUK> ?
18:53:25 <springmeyer> out of the sql query in the XML
18:54:00 <mattbUK> ah gotcha
19:03:12 <springmeyer> mattbUK: if you have a spare moment, or need a break, adding that odd 'object_base_intializer' error to:
19:03:13 <springmeyer> http://trac.mapnik.org/wiki/InstallationTroubleshooting
19:03:16 <springmeyer> would be great
19:03:23 <springmeyer> with how you solved it
19:03:46 <mattbUK> will do - i've made some notes on a few little problems I encountered
19:05:49 <springmeyer> cool, thx
19:12:06 <nikq> Mapnik Trac: Ticket #518 (Addition of JPEGReader) created | http://trac.mapnik.org/ticket/518
19:15:15 <mattbUK> spingmeyer: can't track down where this is 'lock' is any tips?
19:18:48 <springmeyer> mattbUK: hmm, its in several of the inc snippets and the main osm.xml
19:19:05 <springmeyer> grep or some full text search is in order
19:19:09 <springmeyer> or, another idea
19:19:24 <springmeyer> is to just add that field manually to your tables
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19:19:48 <springmeyer> Alter table planet_osm_line add column "lock" varchar;
19:20:39 <springmeyer> hmm, you are right, it should already be there...
19:20:53 <mattbUK> yeah appears to be there
19:20:56 <springmeyer> sorry I didn't check that before recommending this... I see the column now
19:21:03 <mattbUK> it's ok
19:21:05 * springmeyer looks back at error again...
19:21:13 <mattbUK> thanks for the help so far!
19:21:34 <springmeyer> oh, duh
19:21:52 <springmeyer> sorry, I did not look close enough
19:22:17 <springmeyer> it is a typo in the osm.xml
19:22:27 <springmeyer> are you running the latest?
19:23:30 <mattbUK> think so
19:23:52 <springmeyer> make sure, go svn up in the directory that has the osm.xml
19:25:14 <mattbUK> hmmmm no changes
19:25:34 <springmeyer> okay
19:25:48 <springmeyer> mattbUK: what zoom level are you hitting this error at?
19:26:12 <mattbUK> this is the request that's causing the error
19:26:21 <mattbUK> 15/16373/10900
19:26:25 <mattbUK> .png
19:26:27 <springmeyer> k
19:27:08 <mattbUK> I might checkout mapnik again
19:27:30 <mattbUK> Suspect I am on a tagged release
19:27:39 <dkb> I think I found where the incorrect usage of generate_xml is, its on the wiki of openstreetmap.org: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mapnik
19:28:08 <springmeyer> mattbUK: no I think its a bug in the latest changes of the osm.xml
19:28:11 * springmeyer working on fixing...
19:28:18 <mattbUK> ok cool
19:28:22 <mattbUK> thanks
19:28:56 <dkb> or at least someone reading this for the first time may not understand clearly what this entails even with the paragraph description afterwards.
19:29:14 <springmeyer> looks like there are a few problems...
19:30:26 <mattbUK> I wish I could help clear them up but I haven't got a clue with python
19:31:45 <springmeyer> mattbUK: apply this: http://dpaste.com/165690/
19:32:00 <springmeyer> Ldp__: is the person to fix this when he has a chance
19:32:33 <springmeyer> dkb: thanks, I'll take a look in a moment, but feel free to fix yourself too :)
19:40:26 <mattbUK> wooohoo!
19:40:29 <mattbUK> it works
19:40:31 <mattbUK> thanks!
19:41:26 <springmeyer> ya, sorry about leading you on a goose chase before helping actually though :)
19:41:43 <mattbUK> don't be daft learnt a lot!
19:41:50 <springmeyer> cool
19:42:00 <mattbUK> went from zero to having my own tile server in under 48 hours
19:42:05 <mattbUK> pretty chuffed really!
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19:42:36 <springmeyer> nice
19:45:49 <Ldp__> springmeyer: lock was added a year ago: http://trac.openstreetmap.org/changeset/13616
19:46:29 <springmeyer> Ldp__: right, was not paying attention at first
19:46:47 <springmeyer> I saw steve just was changing things so I figured it was new
19:47:05 <springmeyer> but it seems he missed adding it to a few sql queries in the recent changes
19:47:06 <Ldp__> he just added the styles, but the column has long been there
19:47:17 <Ldp__> I haven't tested latest, yet
19:47:26 <springmeyer> I needed this to get it to work:
19:47:27 <springmeyer> http://dpaste.com/165690/
19:47:28 <Ldp__> but he always commits after testing
19:47:50 <Ldp__> ok
19:47:55 <Ldp__> I'll test in a moment, too
19:48:17 <springmeyer> 15/16373/10900.png
19:49:35 <Ldp__> dkb: that's what you get when you write something perfectly sane on a wiki. Somebody's ought to change it: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Mapnik&diff=419306&oldid=419298
19:51:44 <Ldp__> and not for the better
19:55:43 <Ldp__> there: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Mapnik&diff=431681&oldid=422825
19:59:38 <springmeyer> thank you Ldp__, nice catch
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20:02:41 <Ldp__> springmeyer: I rewrote the mapnik page earlier this year, but did not even attempt to rewrite all the other mapnik setup guides on the OSM wiki. It's a mess.
20:04:04 <springmeyer> okay, ya honestly I've only ever looked at that main one
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20:06:09 <springmeyer> Ldp__: I assume you saw r1646? bummer that slipped through in 0.7.0, but it feels good to have it fixed...
20:06:10 <nikq> http://trac.mapnik.org/changeset/1646, at , by dane: load_map: fix the behavior of PolygonPatternSymbolizer and LinePatternSymbolizerby? truly making it optional to not supply the width, height, and type parameters and allow them to be read automaticall
20:06:27 <Ldp__> no, missed that until now
20:07:20 <springmeyer> ah, okay
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20:13:20 <dkb> ldp: thanks for fixing that wiki
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21:12:24 <nikq> Mapnik Trac: GSOC2010 edited | http://trac.mapnik.org/wiki/GSOC2010?version=8
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23:31:49 <mattbUK> yes folk's it stupid newbie question time (again) - so here goes - maxscale_zoom and minscale_zoom I want to end the style so I can speed up rendering by dumping stuff I don't want - should I be adjusting maxscale and minscale?
23:34:52 <springmeyer> mattbUK: you can set scale dependency to control the number of features queryied by Mapnik in two places
23:35:08 <springmeyer> either at the Layer level
23:35:25 <springmeyer> or (more commonly) within Style Rules
23:36:19 <mattbUK> Great specifically I wanted to dump the retail stuff (pharmacy, supermarket) etc
23:37:22 <springmeyer> right, "amenity" stuff...
23:37:34 <mattbUK> indeedy
23:37:48 <springmeyer> but it depends on whether you want to dump everything or just pharamcy/supermarket....
23:38:01 <mattbUK> the whole lot really
23:38:11 <mattbUK> just don't need it for the type of map I'm displaying
23:38:25 <springmeyer> for the former, adjusting the scaledemoninators will work, for the latter, removing those items from the SQL query would be easier
23:38:34 <springmeyer> okay
23:38:53 <mattbUK> brilliant
23:38:54 <mattbUK> thanks
23:39:01 <springmeyer> so in that case you can likely just remove several whole layers, and the styles they use
23:39:19 <springmeyer> you just need to hunt them down and see how they are referenced by the entities system
23:39:34 <springmeyer> (in the XML is what I mean)
23:39:51 <mattbUK> yeah I just commented out all the pubs/hotels
23:39:56 <mattbUK> works like a charm
23:39:58 <mattbUK> thanks
23:40:00 <springmeyer> k
23:40:15 <mattbUK> Re the wiki - I'm going to work on this this week - once I'm happy and I've sorted my notes out I'm going to do a gude for installing an ondemand tile server on fc10
23:40:19 <mattbUK> (and 11)
23:40:29 <mattbUK> loving this
23:40:42 <springmeyer> okay
23:40:43 <springmeyer> good
23:40:50 <mattbUK> I've been developing a php site for months - and this is a great break
23:41:23 <springmeyer> currently on mapnik trac we link to osm wiki for fedora: http://trac.mapnik.org/wiki/LinuxInstallation
23:41:47 <springmeyer> but it would be find to consolidate info at mapnik trac
23:41:57 <mattbUK> ok grand
23:43:50 <springmeyer> folks tend to write brain dumps that include both install instructions and configuration steps
23:44:05 <springmeyer> and while immensely valuable can get out of date pretty quickly
23:44:48 <mattbUK> Yeah it can get a bit confusing esp. if you're coming at it with zero knowledge
23:45:56 <dkb> The out-of-date part is probably the biggest killer.  I've run into that on numerous websites.  Without keeping the stuff up-to-date you end up having to skim through a number of sites and trying to mesh all the info together.
23:46:33 <mattbUK> exactly and you get to a point where, like i did, I have half one version half another and zero clue
23:46:33 <mattbUK> lol
23:46:38 <springmeyer> yes, hence why new users that consolidate rather than create are extremely valuable
23:47:29 <mattbUK> I'll do my best to get as much together as I can - very keen on contributing where I can - clearly I can't with the code - but perhaps with the documentation
23:48:57 <dkb> Documentation contribution is just as important as code, without it you have users that might not be able to accomplish anything.
23:49:20 <springmeyer> yes
23:49:30 <dkb> (or waste time of those who could be spending their time coding :p )
23:51:08 <dkb> It is very generous of the users on here like springmeyer, ldp, jburgess, etc to help those who can't figure this stuff out..
23:51:47 <mattbUK> very much appreciated I'm been going crazy!
23:57:16 <dkb> The problem I kept running into is finding which source of documentation/info I should use/trust.   The readme is a good start but needed more.  Which resource/wiki should someone like myself or mattbUK add to if we wish to add to the knowledgebase?  Is http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mapnik supposed to be the main "go-to" for how to get Mapnik setup?
23:58:41 <springmeyer> which "readme"?
23:59:12 <springmeyer> my opinion is that anything related to just Mapnik (like installation and basic configuration) should go at http://trac.mapnik.org
23:59:31 <springmeyer> while the definitive start page for using Mapnik with OSM is that wiki page above
23:59:42 <dkb> The "Rendering OpenStreetMap with Mapnik"