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00:34:30 <StormTide> is there any way to tell mapnik not to render borders?
00:34:42 <Ldp__> don't write a rule for them?
00:34:47 <StormTide> ive not...
00:34:56 <StormTide> seems automagic where stuff overlaps
00:35:07 <StormTide> http://dev.stormtide.ca/test.htm <-- for example
00:35:09 <Ldp__> define borders? do you mean a tiny gap?
00:35:13 <springmeyer> StormTide: gdal vrt's can help
00:35:22 <Ldp__> ah, those
00:35:26 <StormTide> *googles&
00:36:29 <springmeyer> StormTide: you talking about raster data inputs or vector?
00:36:47 <StormTide> im talkin about these lines heh, not sure where they come from
00:36:55 <StormTide> they border each shp file as far as i can tell
00:37:14 <springmeyer> oh, well then ignore the vrt idea, that is for rasters
00:37:28 <springmeyer> you need to figure out what attribute the borders have in common
00:37:31 <springmeyer> and filter it out
00:37:40 <Ldp__> are you sure those borders are not just an object in your shapefiles?
00:37:47 <StormTide> oh you think this is in my shp?
00:37:48 <springmeyer> using Mapnik Filters, or delete from the original shapefile
00:37:55 <StormTide> hrmph
00:37:55 <StormTide> checks
00:40:13 <springmeyer> ah StormTide - so those are polygon outlines, you can't filter them out
00:40:27 <StormTide> ;(
00:40:40 <springmeyer> you have two options - 1) don't at LineSymbolizers to your outlines
00:40:46 <springmeyer> (unlikely you want to do that)
00:40:47 <springmeyer> or
00:41:06 <springmeyer> 2) merge your shapefiles to collapse the borders between them
00:41:19 <springmeyer> at/add
00:41:21 <StormTide> can that be done in the xml?
00:41:29 <StormTide> or would i have to merge the .shps
00:41:32 <springmeyer> #1 - yes, #2 no
00:41:33 <nikq> Ticket #2: GetFeatureInfo() Support, http://trac.mapnik.org/ticket/2
00:41:33 <StormTide> the latter is impossible
00:41:42 <StormTide> drats
00:41:46 <springmeyer> its not impossible
00:41:53 <StormTide> would your postgis example get rid of em?
00:42:05 <springmeyer> huh?
00:42:17 <StormTide> you'd suggested using postgis for the data before
00:42:25 <StormTide> since it's at the file's edge...
00:42:32 <StormTide> no file, no border?
00:42:37 <springmeyer> datasource does not matter
00:42:52 <StormTide> if i merge the shps into one file, that file would be gigs and unloadable
00:43:07 <StormTide> owell, will have to live with it i guess
00:46:46 <StormTide> is there any way to randomly reduce a point dataset using the xml file?
00:46:49 <StormTide> like a simplify
00:47:37 <springmeyer> no, you'd want to do that ahead of time
00:47:59 <springmeyer> this is commonly done inside postgis using the ST_Simplify function
00:48:07 <springmeyer> .g ST_Simplify+postgis
00:48:08 <nikq> springmeyer: http://www.postgis.org/pipermail/postgis-users/2007-October/017459.html
00:48:27 <StormTide> k thx
00:48:37 <springmeyer> for lines really...
00:54:23 <springmeyer> StormTide: I'd recommend you bring your shapefiles into postgis. Once in the database you'd then "union" all polygons that share the same attributes.
00:55:06 <springmeyer> based on the assumption that polygons (depths) between shapefiles that are the same share similiar attribute values
00:55:44 <StormTide> k
00:55:59 <StormTide> i'll try that later, im still trying to solve my space-on-device issue
00:56:05 <StormTide> which might scrub this whole approach
00:56:11 <StormTide> cuz i need offline mapping :(
00:56:37 <StormTide> and ive got about a 2 gig limit...
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08:22:56 <nikq> Mapnik Trac: Ticket #343 (Add a resolution parameter to Map object) updated | http://trac.mapnik.org/ticket/343#comment:11
08:23:36 <nikq> Mapnik Trac: Ticket #343 (Add a resolution parameter to Map object) updated | http://trac.mapnik.org/ticket/343#comment:12
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16:13:23 <nikq> Mapnik Trac: Ticket #428 (Polygons and "the problem of adjacent edges") updated | http://trac.mapnik.org/ticket/428#comment:8
16:56:33 <nikq> Mapnik Trac: Ticket #428 (Polygons and "the problem of adjacent edges") updated | http://trac.mapnik.org/ticket/428#comment:9
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17:25:07 <nikq> Mapnik Trac: Ticket #512 (Need to enforce AA/default gamma function post #428/r1557) created | http://trac.mapnik.org/ticket/512
17:28:19 <nikq> Mapnik Trac: Changeset [1625]: enforce default gamma function - improves upon #428, closes #512 | http://trac.mapnik.org/changeset/1625
17:28:29 <nikq> Mapnik Trac: Ticket #512 (Need to enforce AA/default gamma function post #428/r1557) updated | http://trac.mapnik.org/ticket/512#comment:1
17:38:09 <nikq> Mapnik Trac: Ticket #428 (Polygons and "the problem of adjacent edges") updated | http://trac.mapnik.org/ticket/428#comment:10
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18:02:00 <HuskyRunner_> Is it appropriate to ask about osm2pgsql here?
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18:19:32 <springmeyer> HuskyRunner: yes
18:20:45 <HuskyRunner> I get the infamous table creation errors that I can't seem to determine how to correct:
18:20:48 <HuskyRunner> Using projection SRS 900913 (Spherical Mercator)
18:20:48 <HuskyRunner> Setting up table: planet_osm_point
18:20:48 <HuskyRunner> NOTICE:  table "planet_osm_point" does not exist, skipping
18:21:34 <springmeyer> HuskyRunner: those are fine... not a problem
18:22:18 <HuskyRunner> ok, end result after those messages is:
18:22:33 <HuskyRunner> NOTICE:  table "planet_osm_roads_tmp" does not exist, skipping
18:22:33 <HuskyRunner> Mid: Ram, scale=100
18:22:33 <HuskyRunner> Reading in file: /Users/db/Downloads/minnesota.osm.bz2
18:22:34 <HuskyRunner> error while opening file /Users/db/Downloads/minnesota.osm.bz2
18:23:54 <springmeyer> yep, now thats an error
18:24:33 <springmeyer> maybe your download got botched?
18:25:20 <HuskyRunner> could it be permissions issue?  I did a sudo -u postgres -i
18:25:34 <HuskyRunner> but the bz2 file is under my regular account
18:26:05 <Ldp__> try bzcat |
18:26:35 <Ldp__> if it isn't a permissions problem, that is
18:27:23 <HuskyRunner> -sh: /Users/db/Downloads/minnesota.osm.bz2: Permission denied
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18:29:52 <HuskyRunner> do I need to run osm2pgsql as the postgres user? Or is there a way to simply run it with same user that has the data I want to import?
18:30:23 <HuskyRunner> since obviously there is a permissions issue
18:36:25 <HuskyRunner> ok, I did this: osm2pgsql -U mapadmin .... as my "/users/db" user and it is now processing the file
18:38:16 <HuskyRunner> so full line was for reference: Mac-mini:osm2pgsql db$ osm2pgsql -U mapadmin -S /Users/db/Development/Weather/osm2pgsql -m -d gis /Users/db/Downloads/minnesota.osm.bz2
18:40:28 <Ldp__> I hope you're not planning to add diff files to that
18:41:24 <HuskyRunner> I don't have the postgresql extension for that and it was my understanding the only diffs created are the planet ones?
18:41:38 <Ldp__> there are daily, hourly and minutely diffs
18:41:43 <Ldp__> the planets are full dumps
18:42:44 <HuskyRunner> I don't have the hardware resources to handle the planet right now, I wanted to try just single state and experiment creating tiles through the mapnik renderer
18:43:21 <Ldp__> oh, that's fine. Just pointing out that if you had planned to apply diff files, you would've had to add the --slim parameter
18:43:51 <HuskyRunner> ok, thanks.. does anyone create diffs for US states?
18:44:34 <Ldp__> they're not needed. You can apply the full diffs, which you can limit to your area before they get to the db
18:45:28 <HuskyRunner> oh, ok.. but I would still need to d/l the full planet file or you are saying I could use the diff of the planet file and get only the area diffs applicable to minnesota?
18:46:13 <Ldp__> you can load the Minnesota planet extract, and then apply the full planet diffs, which you run through a filter
18:48:10 <Ldp__> the filter, being in osm2pgsql, is quite crude: just a bbox
18:48:28 <Ldp__> if you have an irregular state, you will get newly created objects outside your state as well
18:49:02 <Ldp__> but all of this is irrelevant to the topic of this channel :)
18:50:16 <HuskyRunner>  thanks..  you have been very helpful..  but in regards to this channel, I am going to try to create "multilayer"(?) tiles.. one of a background tile, and the other with the highway tags and the rest transparent..  I saw 0.7 just added/improved that
18:51:18 <HuskyRunner> I believe it is the "PNG: Added support for semitransparency in png256 output"
18:51:46 <Ldp__> png256 transparency is still not without issues, but it's gotten a lot better
18:52:39 <HuskyRunner> What I wanted to do is this: http://trac.mapnik.org/attachment/ticket/477/png256a_demo.2.png
18:52:40 <Ldp__> if your overlay has semitransparent colours already, the antialiasing can't do such a good job, and you could get jagged edges again. All depending on what's in your overlay
18:53:27 <Ldp__> so, try png256, and if you don't like the result, go back to full png?
18:53:40 <Ldp__> full png transparency is fine, but the files will be bigger
18:55:09 <HuskyRunner> is there and references on how to generate 2 tiles for same location like that?
18:55:34 <Ldp__> hmm?
18:55:41 <Ldp__> side by side?
18:55:58 <Ldp__> or base + overlay?
18:57:54 <HuskyRunner> "background" mapnik tile + my own generated layer + "highway tag" layer with rest of tile transparent
18:58:18 <Ldp__> use different stylesheets for each layer
18:58:28 <Ldp__> and have the overlays with <Map background="transparent">
18:59:09 <HuskyRunner> I can specify different tile path locations then so they don't overwrite the other?
18:59:39 <Ldp__> sure, but it depends on what you use to generate the tiles
19:00:00 <HuskyRunner> whatever is recommended
19:00:49 <Ldp__> that's a bit ambiguous :)
19:00:56 <Ldp__> depends on what you want to achieve
19:01:05 <Ldp__> render large images, render tiles
19:01:12 <Ldp__> render on demand, or prerender everything
19:01:12 <Ldp__> etc
19:01:33 <HuskyRunner> prerender everything
19:01:44 <Ldp__> hope you have big disks :)
19:01:54 <HuskyRunner> I just want simply URL that an app can access with the correct tile
19:02:24 <Ldp__> if you want to do Minnesota in zoom levels 0-18, you're in for a shock
19:02:28 <Ldp__> re disk space needed
19:02:39 <Ldp__> most of us just render tiles on demand
19:03:19 <HuskyRunner> I'm going to limit zoom level
19:03:32 <HuskyRunner> but am worried about size
19:03:56 <Ldp__> is rendering on demand out of the question?
19:04:48 <HuskyRunner> I can't host server at my location and am not sure about a host provider unless I co-locate a mac mini at a server farm
19:05:48 <Ldp__> you might want to do some math on the storage needed for your given area and zoom levels
19:06:20 <Ldp__> prerendering them and then transferring over the net may not be an option either
19:07:34 <HuskyRunner> so most people are running their own servers?
19:08:03 <Ldp__> I assume so
19:10:11 <HuskyRunner> what renderer are they using to generate on the fly then?
19:10:18 <Ldp__> mapnik
19:10:36 <Ldp__> in OpenStreetMap usually controlled through mod_tile
19:10:53 <Ldp__> but you could use TileCache, TileLite, and probably some other tools I don't know about
19:11:22 <HuskyRunner> and URL is still used to access a specific tile, correct?
19:11:26 <Ldp__> yes
19:11:36 <Ldp__> the 'regular' z/x/y.png scheme
19:12:15 <HuskyRunner> and it would be accessing the postgresql database to generate the tiles?
19:12:25 <Ldp__> yep
19:12:54 <Ldp__> same as in prerendering. The only difference is it takes a few seconds to generate a tile that doesn't exist yet (or has been expired)
19:13:11 <Ldp__> the rest of the setup (postgis + mapnik) is the same
19:13:53 <HuskyRunner> I do like that better but then I would have to invest in server/host instead of just having a server that has files on it
19:14:59 <Ldp__> are you prepared to upload a few dozen or few hundred gigabytes from your prerendering server to your online server?
19:15:23 <HuskyRunner> no, it would be impossible..
19:15:59 <Ldp__> exactly. The numbers are staggering
19:16:12 <Ldp__> even if you limit yourself to Minnesota and zoom 16, for instance
19:20:27 <HuskyRunner> I will try that route then.. but will test everything on a my local mac server and if I can get satisfactory results can invest in having a mac mini hosted at a server farm
19:20:45 <Ldp__> or a linux box
19:20:51 <Ldp__> might be cheaper?
19:21:05 <HuskyRunner> used to mac at least
19:22:42 <Ldp__> different worlds :)
19:23:17 <HuskyRunner> thanks for your help...  It would be nice if the folks maintaining osm2pgsql made a little improvements to status mesages so my initial panic of serious problems wouldn't have happened
19:23:47 <springmeyer> HuskyRunner: go with linux
19:23:57 <Ldp__> you're not the first to be scared by those *notices* :)
19:24:10 <springmeyer> HuskyRunner: just learn that 'NOTICE' means NOTICE
19:24:20 <springmeyer> Ldp__: :)
19:24:52 <springmeyer> ... which is a postgres thing not an osm2pgsql thing...
19:24:58 <HuskyRunner> but other examples on the web don't show those notices when importing.. I assume those notices are first-time only imports?
19:25:22 <Ldp__> HuskyRunner: yes
19:25:31 <Ldp__> and half of them every time you apply a diff
19:25:45 <Ldp__> but I don't think we need to see them. Don't know why jburgess added them so visibly
19:25:53 <HuskyRunner> and if I went linux, is there a recommended hosting provider I would be able to use to do what I need with mapnik/mod_tile?
19:26:13 <HuskyRunner> all access would be from US
19:26:46 <jburgess> Ldp__: I believe they come from the postgres library, I have not looked to see whether they can be turned off
19:27:37 <Ldp__> ah
19:27:53 <springmeyer> HuskyRunner: look into a VPS with at least 400-500 MB RAM. I use linode.com but there are others like it
19:28:29 <springmeyer> HuskyRunner: Ubuntu is the most tested linux platform
19:28:35 <springmeyer> and instructions for installing are at:
19:28:40 <springmeyer> `UbuntuInstallation
19:28:40 <nikq> http://trac.mapnik.org/wiki/UbuntuInstallation
19:29:06 <springmeyer> HuskyRunner: did you compile Mapnik on your mac mini or are you using the installers?
19:29:17 <HuskyRunner> installer
19:29:34 <springmeyer> k
19:29:50 <HuskyRunner> tested with python and appears to work fine
19:30:44 <springmeyer> better be, lots of blood and tears in that installer ;)
19:31:33 <HuskyRunner> the $30/month linode option?
19:32:42 <springmeyer> yep. you can get by with Mapnik stuff even with the "360", just have to add more RAM to it
19:33:21 <springmeyer> but the bigger ones are certainly recommended
19:34:32 <HuskyRunner> and you'd import all the data into the postgresql db right on your linode site?
19:34:43 <springmeyer> yep
19:34:53 <springmeyer> you'd just ssh into the box
19:35:07 <springmeyer> and use wget or curl to download the osm.bz2
19:35:32 <HuskyRunner> do you worry about others using your site to access the tiles for their own purposes?
19:37:01 <springmeyer> usually that is the goal :)
19:37:09 <springmeyer> but its easy to restrict access when needed
19:37:58 <springmeyer> er, easy for me. the standard tile serving options don't provide a security layer out of the box
19:38:28 <HuskyRunner> I'd like to create an application that requires the mapping data/tiles so my audience would be restricted
19:38:45 <HuskyRunner> an iPad app actually
19:40:27 <springmeyer> sure
19:41:54 <HuskyRunner> I have it working now using openstreetmap but then realized I needed the ability to overlay highways with transparency as the background, hence my quest to generate/serve own tiles.. along with ability to add other data.
19:42:28 <HuskyRunner> the shuttle radar data being one
19:42:38 <springmeyer> sure
19:43:59 <HuskyRunner> would I be able to ssh into that linode account and download the planet file directly to there?
19:45:56 <springmeyer> of course, the whole osm2pgsql -> mapnik pipeline is command line/scriptable so its just as easy to do on a remote machine as a local one
19:46:11 <HuskyRunner> now THAT makes it worth it :D
19:46:44 <HuskyRunner> I was thinking I was going to have to download that 8GB file and re-upload it from my 1Mb/s DSL
19:47:15 <springmeyer> that you would want to avoid ;)
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19:47:26 * springmeyer thought you were just doing minnesota?
19:47:45 <HuskyRunner> just minnesota to test because the planet file is too big for me to download
19:48:31 <HuskyRunner> but it would be just north america
19:48:48 <springmeyer> well, if you want storage for the whole planet then you'd start to look at ec2/ebs as VPS systems don't provide as cost effective space
19:49:20 <springmeyer> but it depends on your goals. you mentioned 'shuttle radar' data. that can get big
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19:49:33 <HuskyRunner> everything would be restricted to north america
19:50:27 <HuskyRunner> yes, I see the Linode storage is actually surprisingly low
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19:54:29 <springmeyer> yep, VPS like linode is targeted at apps not storage.
19:59:45 <HuskyRunner> thanks for all the help..  I have a much better ideas of what I need to address
20:19:34 <springmeyer> HuskyRunner: yw
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21:04:45 <HuskyRunner> Which "tile" servers should I look into for rendering tiles on the fly from the Postgresql db?
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21:06:42 <HuskyRunner> Is there any disadvantage of using the OGC server?
21:15:59 <StormTide> HuskyRunner, are you trying to do offline maps at all?
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21:21:48 <HuskyRunner> From earlier conversation it appeared to me that the best option for me would be generating tiles on request
21:23:16 <StormTide> ya... i'm trying to get a prototype in the iphone space, though, in marine mapping... but the offline question is a problem
21:23:30 <StormTide> the tiled maps are extremely large for any offline use
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21:38:22 <HuskyRunner> you've heard of OffMaps?
21:39:11 <HuskyRunner> I can't seem to locate the 'epsg' file usually located at "/usr/share/proj/epsg" on Mac OS X
21:40:03 <StormTide> HuskyRunner, yes, but nearest i can tell offmaps downloads very small areas
21:40:06 <StormTide> like a city
21:40:29 <HuskyRunner> its just too much data
21:40:35 <StormTide> yep
21:41:40 <StormTide> there's other raster systems out there, but i think they're using the iphones hardware to perform zoom/pan operations on a single highly rendered map
21:42:19 <HuskyRunner> my interest here is for an iPad product
21:42:47 <HuskyRunner> using Mapnik renderer
21:42:56 <StormTide> they have the same 2 gig limitation dont they?
21:43:29 <HuskyRunner> I'm not planning on supporting offline
21:43:35 <StormTide> ah
21:43:56 <StormTide> check out route-me then
21:44:21 <StormTide> i managed to get it talking to mod_tile/renderd with mapnik
21:44:53 <HuskyRunner> I'm using route-me, but need different tiles rendered
21:45:07 <StormTide> whats tripping yeh up at the moment?
21:45:53 <StormTide> my approach looked like route-me with a custom tile source (just subclass the osm one and change the url)
21:46:13 <StormTide> pointed at mod_tile/renderd which then points at mapnik
21:47:00 <HuskyRunner> I need custom tiles, 2 layers per tile, one background tile layer and another highway tag layer with the rest of the tile transparent
21:47:44 <StormTide> are you using quantumnik (with qgis)?
21:47:57 <HuskyRunner> no
21:48:03 <StormTide> it'll make your life easier
21:48:25 <HuskyRunner> how so?
21:48:59 <StormTide> well, 1 it'll start you off with a mapnik.xml file that you can customize... and 2. it'll let you load/realtime preview your mapnik.xml files
21:50:19 <StormTide> also, springmeyer makes something called TileLite which is excellent for testing... avoids the whole mod_tile/renderd setup
21:50:45 <StormTide> http://bitbucket.org/springmeyer/tilelite/wiki/Home
21:51:10 <HuskyRunner> how does that differ from the ogc server?
21:52:06 <StormTide> probably in lots of ways but if your goal is route-me, its probably easier
21:52:17 <StormTide> at least till you get setup/running
21:54:04 <StormTide> basically once you have it you just run tilelite.py mapnik.xml and it'll start a webserver on 8080 and you can play with your tiles n such
22:06:55 <HuskyRunner> IT would be nice to have a comparison between all these servers
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22:22:16 <nikq> Mapnik Trac: OgcServer edited | http://trac.mapnik.org/wiki/OgcServer?version=15
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22:58:33 <HuskyRunner> Could someone fill in what the path should be in sys.path.append('/path/to/map_factory/') when setting up the Mapnik OGC Server?
23:03:38 <HuskyRunner> never mind, found the OgcServerSvn link that gives example
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23:56:28 <StormTide> springmeyer, is there any way to render arbitrary polygons from a string in mapnik's xml
23:56:38 <StormTide> like a radius around a shield
23:57:03 <springmeyer> no
23:57:26 <springmeyer> that could be done using PostGIS however, using the ST_buffer() function
23:57:55 <StormTide> k