00:00:53 <w0lfie_> no, public domain works are not restricted by copyright 00:01:17 <ser> and again: imho there is no "authority" to confirm your map is "accurate" 00:01:30 <ser> until you check it by yourself 00:01:40 <ser> or pay for a guy who will check it for you 00:03:15 <w0lfie_> i trust the USGS data was checked by someone reasonably competent at the time it was made 00:03:23 <w0lfie_> doesnt mean its accurate now 00:03:32 <w0lfie_> but thats better than OSM 00:03:40 <w0lfie_> since i dont even know whether that was ever accurate 00:03:50 <w0lfie_> thats assuming accuracy is important to me 00:03:53 <w0lfie_> which admittedly for everyone it's not 00:03:55 <ser> some people trust in god, and it confirms nothing 00:04:11 <w0lfie_> that comparison makes no sense 00:04:13 <orls> My 10 cents; if I'm paying someone for somethin -- if it's their business to make it --then if a fault is found then A) I have someone to blame, and B) since they don't want to go out of business, there's an incentive to get it right 00:04:14 <ser> you did not compare actual OSM with your USGS 00:04:41 <w0lfie_> actually most of the OSM data for the US originally c ame from the TIGER data 00:04:59 <w0lfie_> which originally mostly came from the USGS 00:05:03 <ser> orls: to have someone to blame is a comfortable but strictly does not repair anything 00:05:09 <w0lfie_> so technically 00:05:19 <w0lfie_> most of the OSM US data, is originally USGS data 00:05:26 <ser> w0lfie_: ok, but it is growing 140KB each minute 00:05:34 <w0lfie_> and? 00:05:49 <w0lfie_> just because it's growing doesn't mean it's getting BETTER 00:05:51 <ser> and it probably is better each minute 00:05:56 <w0lfie_> 'probably' 00:06:00 <w0lfie_> well there we have it 00:06:07 <w0lfie_> nobody really has any idea 00:06:13 <ser> you are also probably right 00:06:19 <w0lfie_> now dont get me wrong 00:06:21 <w0lfie_> im not saying OSM is crap 00:06:25 <w0lfie_> im saying NOBODY KNOWS 00:06:33 <ser> our world is too complicated to be sure about anything 00:06:46 <w0lfie_> im pretty sure im sitting here 00:06:51 <ser> w0lfie_: and nobody knows if USGS is right 00:06:58 <ser> you just trust them 00:07:02 <w0lfie_> and i also know most of the roads in this area 00:07:06 <w0lfie_> yes, i do trust them 00:07:09 <w0lfie_> and i don't trust OSM 00:07:17 <w0lfie_> because i have no reason to 00:07:25 <ser> yes, so for me, a researcher, a trust is not enough 00:07:50 <ser> a do not believe in god, i do not trust in US goevrment and in USGS as well 00:08:00 <ser> i do not trust anyone 00:10:21 <w0lfie_> sure you do 00:10:36 <w0lfie_> you trust people every day, implicitly 00:10:42 <w0lfie_> that your food supply hasnt been tampered with.. 00:10:51 <w0lfie_> that someone wont try to run you off the road because they're half competent at driving. 00:11:00 <w0lfie_> that the people that built your home knew what they were doing and it wont collapse 00:11:02 <w0lfie_> etc etc etc etc 00:12:01 <ser> i mean during my research :) 00:12:14 <ser> and maps are in the center of my research right now 00:13:30 <ser> and because i would like people to participate in my project, i need to show them they can build a map by themselves 00:13:43 <ser> and OSM layer is pretty enough for such a purposes 00:14:45 <ser> and i can remember two US subarines had an accident in the center of ocean a month ago, do not they? 00:14:51 <w0lfie_> but OSM isnt really people building a map by themselves 00:15:03 <w0lfie_> its mostly been about taking data from public domain sources and cleaning it up 00:15:10 <w0lfie_> the vast majority of the data in there was creating by governments or other agencies 00:15:15 <w0lfie_> at least originally 00:15:34 <ser> sure, you are right, people just authorize these data by themselves 00:15:38 <w0lfie_> 688 and amphibious boat collapsed 00:15:42 <w0lfie_> er collided* 00:15:50 <ser> looking in their neighbourhood 00:16:39 <ser> so these boats probbaly did not use authoratitative enough system? ;-) 00:16:52 <w0lfie_> probably just an incompetent crew 00:17:05 <w0lfie_> anyway maps wont prevent 2 people from colliding 00:17:32 <w0lfie_> anyway if i was going to do a study on collaborative mapping i'd rather do something on indigenous land mapping 00:17:39 <w0lfie_> or collaborative/participatory GIS 00:17:44 <ser> yes, so unauthratitative source of maps is the reason of 0.1% of collisions? ;) 00:18:27 <ser> the rest is just people's wrong-doing 00:18:29 <w0lfie_> i don't know if a vehicle collision has ever been directly attributed to bad map data 00:18:31 <w0lfie_> would be interesting to know 00:18:44 <ser> in poland a guy has landed in the lake 00:18:46 <w0lfie_> certainly i can think of other mistakes 00:18:47 <nikq> Mapnik Trac: LineSymbolizer edited | http://trac.mapnik.org/wiki/LineSymbolizer?version=10 00:18:53 <ser> because gps showed him there should be road 00:18:56 <orls> I hate to interrupt the discussion, but are either of you (or any idlers) running 0.6.0 Windows binaries? Having some trouble getting started.. 00:19:13 <w0lfie_> no, but i was going to look at them soon 00:19:16 <ser> orls: i did not see windows for 10 years, sorry, chap 00:19:29 <w0lfie_> (but probably not today) 00:19:38 <w0lfie_> maybe next week 00:19:57 <springmeyer> orls: what's up? 00:20:20 <orls> ser, w0lfie; there was a case recently of a guy in the UK getting his van stuck on the edge of a cliff because of a bad GPS map 00:20:53 <w0lfie_> haha 00:20:55 <w0lfie_> that's awesome 00:21:11 <orls> springmeyer: Can't get python to recognise the lib. Haven't had a prior install on this machin. 00:21:14 <ser> orls: "in map we trust" 00:21:30 <w0lfie_> probably a path issue 00:21:33 <w0lfie_> it won't import? 00:21:37 <springmeyer> orls: so what is the error? 00:21:50 <springmeyer> 'can't find dll'? etc etc? 00:21:55 <orls> yup 00:22:11 <orls> i've checked and triple-checked my paths and my pythonpath... 00:22:11 <springmeyer> so paste here the output of typing: 00:22:14 <springmeyer> $ path 00:22:40 <springmeyer> sure, and have you set them for your USER or SYSTEM? 00:23:39 <orls> user...tried system too earlier, but removed now 00:24:04 <orls> I've just noticed an errant " at the end of another PATH entry, I'll try again... 00:24:30 <springmeyer> okay, and then paste it if that does not work 00:25:47 <w0lfie_> dane do you write the t@h also? 00:26:18 <springmeyer> no. cool project tho 00:26:30 <w0lfie_> yeah i was thinking of stealing that also ;) 00:27:35 <w0lfie_> cuz my app servers arent too beefy 00:27:50 <w0lfie_> but i have a 16 core that'd be beefy for tiling 00:28:45 <orls> springmeyer: Yep, I screwed up my PATH env. *shame face*. imports fine now. 00:29:05 <springmeyer> orls: horray 00:29:11 <w0lfie_> dane's the man 00:29:23 <springmeyer> orls: don't hesitate to update the trac docs if you see anything that can be improved 00:29:37 <orls> ...and the demo runs fine. Excellent 00:29:45 <springmeyer> they were written by someone who's only used windows once in the last year :) 00:29:54 <springmeyer> cool 00:30:42 <orls> I might update it to drop the (now out-dated?) reference to manually installing Boost. Other than that it seems OK. 00:31:00 <springmeyer> really, is that still there? 00:31:06 <springmeyer> .g WindowsInstallation 00:31:07 <nikq> springmeyer: http://www.pcnineoneone.com/howto/clean1.html 00:31:14 <springmeyer> gah! 00:31:47 <springmeyer> ah ya, shoot 00:31:57 <springmeyer> orls: great, remove that you bet 00:39:06 *** jlivni has quit ("Changing server") 00:45:32 <orls> ok, now I've got my home PC set up like my work one...the question I came here to ask! 00:46:44 <orls> How do I go about colorizing a USGS DEM file? I can get it to render (loading as GDAL datasource), but how can I filter for height values on it? 00:48:18 <springmeyer> orls: color ramps and gradients are planned for mapnik, but not yet available 00:48:39 <springmeyer> so you need to pre- 'colorize' 00:49:06 <springmeyer> essentially by adding a colortable to your file using gdal or similar tools 00:49:11 <orls> ach. Well that settles that then. Any tips for what to use to colorise? my GIS paackage can do it, but not render it out (not effectively, anyway) 00:49:24 <orls> ah, thanks 00:49:45 <springmeyer> ya, just color ramp it then save to geotiff then render with mapnik 00:49:52 <springmeyer> .g Demtools 00:49:52 <nikq> springmeyer: http://perrygeo.net/wordpress/?p=7 00:50:29 <springmeyer> thats the package that many use, and some work has been done to integrate it directly into mapnik but is not available yet 00:52:11 <orls> ah, that's perfect! Thanks very much. I'll be back when I have something worthwhile to contribute 00:52:22 <orls> and I'll stop pestering you now ;) 01:02:49 *** orls has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.8/2009032609]") 01:15:37 *** brian_ (n=brian@oreo.entropy.net) has joined #mapnik 01:15:47 *** brian_ is now known as w0lfie- 01:15:50 <w0lfie-> hey dane around? 01:16:01 <w0lfie-> what was that alt win32 bin link? 01:16:27 <springmeyer> for a sec more 01:16:34 <springmeyer> http://media.mapnik.org/mapnik-0.6.0-win-py25.zip 01:16:40 <w0lfie-> awesome :) 01:16:58 * springmeyer heads out 01:17:00 <springmeyer> later all 01:17:03 <w0lfie-> peas 01:17:16 <w0lfie-> hoping to iunstall at work next week :) 01:23:17 *** w0lfie- has quit ("leaving") 01:31:43 *** springmeyer has quit () 05:29:31 *** aub has quit () 12:24:46 <nikq> Mapnik Trac: Changeset [1071]: new added file | http://trac.mapnik.org/changeset/1071 12:32:23 <ser> what could an advantage to use tiles smaller/bigger than 256x256? 14:48:19 *** sanjiv (n=chatzill@59.180.153.153) has joined #mapnik 15:53:53 *** springmeyer (n=dane@c-24-19-50-92.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #mapnik 16:33:26 <nikq> Mapnik Trac: Changeset [1072]: compile utils with autotools | http://trac.mapnik.org/changeset/1072 16:41:14 *** sanjiv has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:47:59 *** sanjiv (n=chatzill@59.180.149.12) has joined #mapnik 17:09:43 <nikq> Mapnik Trac: Ticket #291 (make build fails due to -lagg not being found) created | http://trac.mapnik.org/ticket/291 17:10:10 *** aub (n=aubrey@cpe-72-227-134-148.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #mapnik 17:10:33 <nikq> Mapnik Trac: Ticket #291 (make build fails due to -lagg not being found) updated | http://trac.mapnik.org/ticket/291#comment:1 17:19:31 <nikq> Mapnik Trac: Ticket #44 (add support for 3D/4D postgis geometries) updated | http://trac.mapnik.org/ticket/44#comment:5 17:20:52 <nikq> Mapnik Trac: Ticket #119 (Case insensitivity with Field name lookup in Symbolizers) updated | http://trac.mapnik.org/ticket/119#comment:2 17:21:23 <nikq> Mapnik Trac: Ticket #114 (Not all PointSymbolizer attributes accessible) updated | http://trac.mapnik.org/ticket/114#comment:6 17:21:33 <nikq> Mapnik Trac: Ticket #112 (Support for Indic OpenType Font rendering with ICU 'Shaping') updated | http://trac.mapnik.org/ticket/112#comment:7 17:41:30 <nikq> Mapnik Trac: Ticket #149 (Fix certificate for trac.mapnik.org and mailing lists) updated | http://trac.mapnik.org/ticket/149#comment:4 17:46:36 <nikq> Mapnik Trac: Ticket #149 (Fix certificate for trac.mapnik.org and mailing lists) updated | http://trac.mapnik.org/ticket/149#comment:5 17:59:40 *** aub has quit () 18:18:17 <nikq> Mapnik Trac: Changeset [1073]: utils support | http://trac.mapnik.org/changeset/1073 19:47:41 *** sanjiv has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.8/2009032711]") 20:18:05 <CIA-6> mapnik-utils: dane.springmeyer * r628 /example_code/ (3 files in 2 dirs): test for ogr input 20:54:13 <nikq> Mapnik Trac: Ticket #292 (segfault in ogr.input when reading gpx lines with empty geoms - either ...) created | http://trac.mapnik.org/ticket/292 20:54:14 <CIA-6> mapnik-utils: dane.springmeyer * r629 /example_code/gpx_points_lines/render.py: 20:56:03 <nikq> Mapnik Trac: Changeset [1074]: fix segfault in ogr plugin by skipping empty geoms - closes #292 | http://trac.mapnik.org/changeset/1074 20:56:34 <nikq> Mapnik Trac: Ticket #292 (segfault in ogr.input when reading gpx lines with empty geoms - either ...) closed | http://trac.mapnik.org/ticket/292#comment:1 20:57:45 <nikq> Mapnik Trac: MapnikInstallation edited | http://trac.mapnik.org/wiki/MapnikInstallation?version=8 21:15:18 <CIA-6> mapnik-utils: dane.springmeyer * r630 /example_code/gpx_points_lines/ (fells_loop.gpx render.py): with bug fixed, switch to basic tracks data 21:15:18 <CIA-6> mapnik-utils: dane.springmeyer * r631 /example_code/gpx_points_lines/render.py: 21:36:39 *** springmeyer has quit () 21:40:53 <nikq> Mapnik Trac: MapnikInstallation edited | http://trac.mapnik.org/wiki/MapnikInstallation?version=9 21:50:41 <nikq> Mapnik Trac: BuildingwithAutotools created | http://trac.mapnik.org/wiki/BuildingwithAutotools?version=1 22:01:11 <nikq> Mapnik Trac: BuildingwithAutotools edited | http://trac.mapnik.org/wiki/BuildingwithAutotools?version=2 22:07:16 <nikq> Mapnik Trac: BuildingwithAutotools edited | http://trac.mapnik.org/wiki/BuildingwithAutotools?version=3 22:10:10 <nikq> Mapnik Trac: BuildingwithAutotools edited | http://trac.mapnik.org/wiki/BuildingwithAutotools?version=4 22:10:50 <nikq> Mapnik Trac: BuildingwithAutotools edited | http://trac.mapnik.org/wiki/BuildingwithAutotools?version=5 22:11:40 <nikq> Mapnik Trac: BuildingwithAutotools edited | http://trac.mapnik.org/wiki/BuildingwithAutotools?version=6 22:13:42 <nikq> Mapnik Trac: BuildingwithAutotools edited | http://trac.mapnik.org/wiki/BuildingwithAutotools?version=7 22:24:32 <nikq> Mapnik Trac: Ticket #226 (OGCServer Style and Layer ordering with load_map() support) updated | http://trac.mapnik.org/ticket/226#comment:3