00:00:10 <artem_> got to go, see you later 00:00:11 *** artem_ has quit () 00:02:40 *** shantz has quit ("Leaving") 00:03:43 <CIA-23> mapnik: artem * r963 /trunk/plugins/input/sqlite/sqlite_datasource.cpp: 00:03:43 <CIA-23> mapnik: + revert to "limit 1" logic 00:03:43 <CIA-23> mapnik: + discard everything after table name when building 00:03:43 <CIA-23> mapnik: table descriptor to avoid seq scan 00:03:43 <CIA-23> mapnik: artem * r964 /trunk/utils/pgsql2sqlite/pgsql2sqlite.hpp: 00:03:44 <CIA-23> mapnik: + create table if not exists 00:03:48 <CIA-23> mapnik: + use OGC_FID instead of PK_UID 00:25:38 *** weizhuo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00:27:05 *** ChanServ has quit (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:28:14 *** ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) has joined #mapnik 00:52:51 *** cremaster (i=blotanic@vpn-wireless-client-pool-245-30.cpmc.columbia.edu) has joined #mapnik 01:23:43 *** springmeyer has quit () 01:51:38 *** cremaster has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:51:47 *** cremaster (i=blotanic@vpn-wireless-client-pool-245-11.cpmc.columbia.edu) has joined #mapnik 02:03:01 *** D3f0 (n=defo@190.176.221.64) has joined #mapnik 02:21:52 *** aub has quit () 02:28:20 *** D3f0 has quit (Connection timed out) 02:48:37 *** cremaster has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 03:07:03 *** weizhuo (n=chatzill@nat/yahoo/x-8d61a479d35ef8eb) has joined #mapnik 03:46:48 *** springmeyer (n=dane@c-24-19-50-92.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #mapnik 07:02:40 *** weizhuo has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 2.0.0.20/2008121709]") 07:44:52 *** xcacou (n=aga@AToulouse-157-1-94-155.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #mapnik 07:49:03 <nikq> Mapnik Trac: Ticket #248 (Scons/Darwin: Allow for linking against non-Framework Python) created | http://trac.mapnik.org/ticket/248 07:51:25 <springmeyer> xcacou: headed off to bed here, but just so you know crschmidt helped figure out the layer ordering issue with the OGCServer 07:51:40 <springmeyer> should be working well overall now if you get around to testing 07:52:09 <springmeyer> and if you want to render ALL osm layers and styles specify &LAYERS=__all__ in your GetMap request 07:52:12 <springmeyer> 'night 07:52:18 <xcacou> hello 07:52:27 <springmeyer> heylo 07:52:55 <xcacou> i have a problem 07:53:29 <xcacou> on my computer (family) no problem 07:53:36 <xcacou> ogcserver is ok 07:53:57 <xcacou> identic openstreemap 07:54:00 <xcacou> but 07:54:16 <xcacou> on work computer 07:54:44 <xcacou> i have no representation 07:55:07 <springmeyer> okay, glad at least on works :) 07:55:26 <springmeyer> post a ticket with your system details and I'll take a look in about 7 hours :) 07:55:32 <springmeyer> see ya 07:56:45 <xcacou> hey are identical except that one is a ubuntu 64 and one x86 08:56:48 *** kunitoki (n=kraken@host217-241-dynamic.44-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #mapnik 09:04:13 *** stamf has quit (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:04:13 *** Mrfo has quit (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:04:13 *** scruggs_ has quit (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:04:14 *** scruggs_ (n=chris@72-161-105-25.dyn.centurytel.net) has joined #mapnik 09:04:16 *** stamf (n=antstam@nat/yahoo/x-4ea1009ad6507c53) has joined #mapnik 09:04:17 *** Mrfo (i=Mrfo@pool-96-231-166-17.washdc.fios.verizon.net) has joined #mapnik 09:58:34 <nikq> Mapnik Trac: Changeset [965]: + sqlite.input: whitespace fix + occi.input: added table_from_sql to allow ... | http://trac.mapnik.org/changeset/965 10:00:49 *** ninja_ (n=pankur@cm122.psi133.maxonline.com.sg) has joined #mapnik 10:15:00 *** artem_ (n=artem@i-83-67-142-225.freedom2surf.net) has joined #mapnik 10:18:08 <CIA-23> mapnik: kunitoki * r965 /trunk/plugins/input/ (3 files in 2 dirs): 10:18:08 <CIA-23> mapnik: + sqlite.input: whitespace fix 10:18:08 <CIA-23> mapnik: + occi.input: added table_from_sql to allow specify SELECT statements in table parameter 10:18:08 <CIA-23> mapnik: + occi.input: added use_spatial_index parameter (on by default) 10:18:08 <CIA-23> mapnik: + occi.input: improved determination of query columns type 10:21:49 <kunitoki> artem_: occi plugin starts to gain a good shape now :) 10:22:09 <artem_> kunitoki: great! 10:22:10 <kunitoki> artem_: you saw the message about the limit 0 :) 10:22:19 <artem_> yep, I fixed it 10:22:28 <kunitoki> that's a poor sqlite problem i think 10:23:04 <artem_> well, nothing wrong with limit 1 but in my case it was pulling 6.000.000 records :) 10:23:17 <kunitoki> mmmh 10:23:20 <kunitoki> why ? 10:23:26 <artem_> table = (select * from planet_osm_line order by z_order) 10:23:44 <kunitoki> ah obviously as a subquery 10:23:53 <artem_> order by was causing sqlite to do a seq scan 10:24:25 <kunitoki> eh. what about limiting the inner query ? 10:24:56 <kunitoki> select * from (select * from planet_osm_line order by z_order limit 1) limit 1 ? 10:25:03 <artem_> yep, it seems to work fine now - I just remove everything after <table_name> 10:25:06 <kunitoki> but i think the order by is the problem... 10:25:15 <kunitoki> ok 10:25:17 <artem_> yeo 10:25:21 <artem_> yes 10:25:21 <kunitoki> but that's not perfect :) 10:25:29 <artem_> i know 10:26:05 <artem_> may be there's a better way to query tables for cols 10:26:18 <kunitoki> think about table = (select b.id, a.geom from tab a inner join tab b on b.id = a.id ) 10:26:35 <artem_> sure 10:26:52 <artem_> we need more generic solution but I have no ideas atm 10:26:58 <kunitoki> well, in occi, you can ask for table metadata 10:27:14 <kunitoki> but if you use a subquery... then no metadata apart the resultset one 10:27:58 <artem_> well sqlite is a very light db :) 10:28:21 <artem_> it hasn't got query optimiser like oracle. postgresql 10:28:54 <kunitoki> yes i know 10:29:06 <kunitoki> sqlite is rather limited 10:29:13 <kunitoki> but useful for embedded databases 10:29:21 <artem_> anyway, looks like OSM in sqlite is a possibility 10:29:53 <kunitoki> eh interesting, keep me informed if you get something working with LARGE datasets 10:30:05 <artem_> sqlite is much much better then shapefile :) 10:30:09 <kunitoki> i have a question about plugins 10:30:15 <artem_> ok 10:30:33 <kunitoki> now plugins can be looked up as external libraries 10:30:36 <kunitoki> only 10:31:08 <kunitoki> i think it will be perfect to let register a datasource from code directly. builtin 10:31:42 <artem_> you should be possible to link at compile time i guess 10:32:05 <kunitoki> i'm making a standalone binary, and i would like to embed the inut plugins inside the binary 10:32:35 <kunitoki> think if you are using the mapnik library form a standalone application 10:33:06 <kunitoki> probably it could be a scons option 10:33:36 <kunitoki> i should open a ticket 10:33:50 <artem_> yes, sure. 10:34:34 <artem_> i don't see much benefits form linking everything in. but hey :) 10:34:41 <artem_> something like : 10:35:04 <artem_> -L/opt/mapnik/lib64/input/ -lsqlite might just work 10:35:49 <artem_> ok, just link statically 10:38:15 <nikq> Mapnik Trac: Ticket #249 (Compile time input plugin static linking in the mapnik library) created | http://trac.mapnik.org/ticket/249 10:39:56 <kunitoki> artem_: yes sure that could also work. anyway register_datasource still needs a directory where to look for datasource. 10:40:19 <kunitoki> datasource=inputplugin 10:41:16 <artem_> yep, i see. 10:41:20 <kunitoki> i say that cause one could subclass datasource / features classes, and register them directly 10:41:30 <kunitoki> without having to write an input plugin 10:42:22 <kunitoki> anyway 10:52:48 *** ChanServ has quit (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 10:54:27 *** ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) has joined #mapnik 10:58:54 *** ninja (n=pankur@nat/yahoo/x-8256ec05967288b8) has joined #mapnik 11:03:13 *** ChanServ has quit (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:05:29 *** ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) has joined #mapnik 11:17:54 *** ninja_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection 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(n=pankur@cm122.psi133.maxonline.com.sg) has joined #mapnik 13:39:15 *** ninja_ has quit (Client Quit) 13:39:27 *** ninja has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:01:11 *** artem_ has quit () 14:22:54 *** aub (n=aubrey@static-70-107-236-83.ny325.east.verizon.net) has joined #mapnik 15:20:17 *** artem_ (n=artem@i-83-67-142-225.freedom2surf.net) has joined #mapnik 16:07:48 *** Ruffiano (n=ruffiano@static-70-21-119-183.res.east.verizon.net) has joined #mapnik 16:07:57 <Ruffiano> Morning 16:31:46 <Ruffiano> are libboost_filesystem-mt.so, libboost_filesystem.so, and possibly libboost_filesystem.so.2 the only boost filesystem libraries used by mapnik? 16:34:11 <Ruffiano> trying to sort out between lib and lib64, and boost 1.33 and 1.38 which libraries are getting used, or sought after by the scons install, looks like a fresh build of boost put things in lib64, but the names all have **-gcc411-mt-*** appended on 16:40:45 <springmeyer> Ruffiano: SCons will likely find 'libboost_filesystem-mt.so' by default, but add BOOST_TOOLKIT=gcc411 and SCons should then link to your source installed 1_38 libs 16:44:06 <Ruffiano> hmm, still failing on those 16:44:42 <springmeyer> same error as yesterday? 16:45:09 <Ruffiano> well, it can't find the filesystem dependancies for the new boost version, so it isn't even starting 16:45:19 <Ruffiano> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 93628 Mar 21 2007 /usr/lib/libboost_filesystem.a 16:45:19 <Ruffiano> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 188406 Feb 24 11:04 /usr/lib/libboost_filesystem-gcc41-mt-1_38.a 16:45:19 <Ruffiano> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 43 Feb 24 11:03 /usr/lib/libboost_filesystem-gcc41-mt-1_38.so -> libboost_filesystem-gcc41-mt-1_38.so.1.38.0 16:45:19 <Ruffiano> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 83552 Feb 24 11:03 /usr/lib/libboost_filesystem-gcc41-mt-1_38.so.1.38.0 16:45:19 <Ruffiano> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 35 Feb 24 11:04 /usr/lib/libboost_filesystem-gcc41-mt.a -> libboost_filesystem-gcc41-mt-1_38.a 16:45:22 <Ruffiano> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 43 Feb 24 11:04 /usr/lib/libboost_filesystem-gcc41-mt.so -> libboost_filesystem-gcc41-mt-1_38.so.1.38.0 16:45:25 <Ruffiano> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 22 Jan 31 10:38 /usr/lib/libboost_filesystem-mt.so -> libboost_filesystem.so 16:45:27 <Ruffiano> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 29 Jan 31 10:38 /usr/lib/libboost_filesystem.so -> libboost_filesystem.so.1.33.1 16:45:29 <Ruffiano> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 62328 Mar 21 2007 /usr/lib/libboost_filesystem.so.1.33.1 16:45:31 <Ruffiano> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 29 Jan 31 10:38 /usr/lib/libboost_filesystem.so.2 -> libboost_filesystem.so.1.33.1 16:46:01 <springmeyer> BOOST_TOOLKIT=gcc41 ? 16:46:25 <springmeyer> not sure if you used my previous pasted of gcc411... 16:47:05 <springmeyer> also perhaps BOOST_INCLUDES = '/usr/local/include/boost-1_38/' 16:47:31 <Ruffiano> yeah, thats with the tookit 16:47:35 <springmeyer> after that, dpaste.com your 'config.log' 16:47:58 <springmeyer> http://dpaste.com 16:48:05 <Ruffiano> and I symbolic linked /usr/include/boost to /usr/local/include/boost-1_38 16:48:23 <Ruffiano> lemme try minus ths sym link directly to the boost dir 16:51:01 <Ruffiano> http://dpaste.com/922/ 16:55:15 <springmeyer> Ruffiano: problem: '.sconf_temp/conftest_2.cpp:10:5: warning: no newline at end of file' 16:55:22 <springmeyer> SCons is messed up, so do: 16:55:32 <springmeyer> sudo rm -rf .scon* 16:55:41 <springmeyer> then try to rebuild again 16:58:47 *** ChanServ has quit (shutting down) 17:02:35 <Ruffiano> http://dpaste.com/946/ 17:02:59 <Ruffiano> same thing 17:04:05 <Ruffiano> line 23 '.sconf_temp/conftest_2.cpp:10:5: warning: no newline at end of file' 17:05:30 <Ruffiano> more conftest_2.cpp 17:05:30 <Ruffiano> #include <boost/version.hpp> 17:05:30 <Ruffiano> #include <iostream> 17:05:30 <Ruffiano> 17:05:30 <Ruffiano> int main() 17:05:31 <Ruffiano> { 17:05:33 <Ruffiano> std::cout << BOOST_LIB_VERSION << std::endl; 17:05:35 <Ruffiano> return 0; 17:05:37 <Ruffiano> } 17:06:21 <Ruffiano> there technically is a newline at the end of it 17:09:48 *** kunitoki has parted #mapnik () 17:09:59 *** ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) has joined #mapnik 17:11:36 *** xcacou has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 17:12:49 <springmeyer> Ruffiano: I think I found it: 17:12:51 <springmeyer> -lboost_system-gcc411-mt-1_38 17:13:02 <springmeyer> gcc41 not gcc411 17:13:16 <springmeyer> those other problems are just warnings 17:13:55 <Ruffiano> BOOST_TOOLKIT=gcc41 ? 17:13:55 <springmeyer> Ruffiano: http://dpaste.com your 'config.py' 17:13:59 <springmeyer> yes 17:14:19 <springmeyer> are you specifying that exactly? 17:14:58 <Ruffiano> might have been 411 17:15:18 <Ruffiano> INPUT_PLUGINS = 'postgis,raster,shape' 17:15:18 <Ruffiano> PREFIX = '/mnt/mapnik' 17:15:18 <Ruffiano> BOOST_INCLUDES = '/usr/local/include/boost-1_38/boost' 17:15:18 <Ruffiano> BINDINGS = 'all' 17:15:50 <Ruffiano> gc41 worked 17:16:04 <Ruffiano> gcc41 ** 17:16:07 <springmeyer> okay, cool, just wanted to make sure the BOOST_TOOLKIT= gcc41(extra1) was not getting saved 17:16:12 <springmeyer> great 17:16:21 <Ruffiano> we'll see if we get through this time 17:22:13 <Ruffiano> looks good 17:22:32 <Ruffiano> going to build some suspense and test it after lunch 17:23:13 <springmeyer> ah good 17:27:39 *** sanjiv (n=chatzill@59.180.162.236) has joined #mapnik 17:27:59 <Ruffiano> or put lunch off an hour... that works too 17:28:38 <Ruffiano> well minus a ".sconf_temp/conftest_21: error while loading shared libraries: libboost_system-gcc41-mt-1_38.so.1.38.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory 17:28:39 <Ruffiano> Problem encountered parsing mapnik version, falling back to [0, 6, 0]" error 17:28:46 <Ruffiano> seemed to build/install 17:29:04 <springmeyer> eww 17:29:28 <springmeyer> does >>> import mapnik work? 17:29:48 <springmeyer> I bet it will say 'can't load library' until you run $ sudo ldconfig 17:30:06 <springmeyer> of which will also fix the boost problem during build 17:31:00 <Ruffiano> Traceback (most recent call last): 17:31:00 <Ruffiano> File "<stdin>", line 1, in ? 17:31:00 <Ruffiano> File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/site-packages/mapnik/__init__.py", line 31, in ? 17:31:00 <Ruffiano> from _mapnik import * 17:31:00 <Ruffiano> ImportError: libmapnik.so.0.6: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory 17:31:55 <Ruffiano> give ldconfig a go and rebuild/install ? 17:32:19 <springmeyer> do $ sudo ldconfig 17:32:25 <springmeyer> then >>> import mapnik 17:32:28 <springmeyer> again 17:32:49 <Ruffiano> same error as pasted 17:33:30 <springmeyer> ah, see what you've got in '/etc/ld.so.conf' for paths... 17:34:21 <springmeyer> in other words, do this: http://trac.mapnik.org/wiki/InstallationTroubleshooting#LinkingErrors 17:34:27 <Ruffiano> heh include ld.so.conf.d/*.conf 17:34:51 <springmeyer> you likely need to add /usr/lib64 17:35:05 <springmeyer> right, newer linux version do that fancyness :) 17:35:38 <springmeyer> so... more /etc/ld.so.conf.d/(tab complete each file to get a look) 17:36:31 <Ruffiano> yeah not much there, just a couple mysql items 17:36:49 <springmeyer> we could consider having SCons put a file called 'mapnik.conf' in /etc/ld.so.conf.d/ 17:37:13 <springmeyer> that contains the path '/usr/local/lib64' 17:38:46 <Ruffiano> might be useful to others 17:39:06 <Ruffiano> my libmapnik seems to be in just /usr/lib64, not /usr/local/lib64 17:39:11 <Ruffiano> if that matters 17:39:24 <springmeyer> context on this discussion: https://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/mapnik-users/2009-January/001571.html 17:40:55 <springmeyer> Ruffiano: right you are using a custom prefix huh? 'PREFIX = '/mnt/mapnik'' 17:41:52 <Ruffiano> correct 17:41:57 <Ruffiano> I like to make problems =) 17:42:11 <Ruffiano> libmapnik.so.0.6 us what the import error is giving me in python 17:42:22 <Ruffiano> but grepping the ldconfig for mapnik I get libmapnik.so.0.5 17:42:47 <springmeyer> yes, that makes sense 17:44:14 <Ruffiano> ah, /mnt/mapnik/lib64 17:44:42 <springmeyer> bingo 17:45:03 <Ruffiano> import mapnik worked 17:45:51 <Ruffiano> can I just copy over the scripts from the older mapnik install, customize-mapnik, etc? 17:45:54 *** jamierob (n=jamierob@umma141.dn69.umontana.edu) has joined #mapnik 17:46:22 <springmeyer> huh? you mean for rending osm data? 17:46:37 <Ruffiano> right, setup with a tilecache server using the OSM data 17:46:52 <crschmidt> Ruffiano: none of those scripts are specific to a mapnik vers 17:46:52 <crschmidt> ion 17:46:54 <springmeyer> ha, you are moving quick :) 17:46:55 <crschmidt> (so 'yes') 17:47:14 <Ruffiano> well, I've had a running Mapnik->Tilecache w/ OSM 17:48:07 <springmeyer> ya, Ruffiano: tilecache should be fine with mapnik trunk and if not I owe crschmidt some quick patches :) 17:48:16 <Ruffiano> heh 17:48:20 <crschmidt> and the .xml file format hasn't changed 17:48:39 <crschmidt> which is all that customize-mapnik does: convert the osm-template.xml to the osm.xml 17:48:53 * crschmidt runs out to lunch 17:50:04 <springmeyer> Ruffiano: a big favor you could do would be to apply this patch to your SConstruct 17:50:05 <springmeyer> http://dpaste.com/980/ 17:50:38 <springmeyer> and let me know if that gets rid of the 'newline' warnings for you (since I don't see them with gcc 4.3.2) 17:52:00 <Ruffiano> sure, might need to walk me through it a bit 17:52:48 <springmeyer> copy that text into a file name of your choosing 17:53:07 <springmeyer> save it in the root mapnik src folder (trunk likely) 17:53:10 <springmeyer> then do: 17:53:29 <springmeyer> $ patch p0 < the_dpaste_file.diff 17:53:45 <springmeyer> python scons/scons.py 17:53:50 <springmeyer> more config.log 17:56:38 <Ruffiano> patch SConstruct < boost_patch ? 17:58:49 <Ruffiano> on a side note, tilecache looks to be working well 17:59:23 *** D3f0 has quit (Remote closed the connection) 17:59:51 <springmeyer> patch -p0 < boost_patch 18:01:35 <Ruffiano> looked good 18:02:38 <Ruffiano> http://dpaste.com/982/ 18:03:19 <springmeyer> ah, great, thanks! 18:03:29 <springmeyer> these ones still persist... '/usr/bin/ld: skipping incompatible /usr/lib/libfreetype.so when searching for -lfreetype' 18:03:51 <springmeyer> which are worrysome but I don't see a quick solution there... 18:05:23 <nikq> Mapnik Trac: Changeset [966]: scons:reformat the custom boost and mapnik version checking cpp snippets, ... | http://trac.mapnik.org/changeset/966 18:07:43 <Ruffiano> the best part is going to be essentially formatting this whole system, and getting this to work from scratch, but should be doable =) 18:08:05 <Ruffiano> got to love ec2 instances 18:08:26 <springmeyer> explain? 18:09:08 <Ruffiano> with Amazon EC2 or cloud computing based servers, your creating a server on the fly from a machine image 18:09:43 <Ruffiano> it's a virtual server, and you just script it to suite your needs from a blank slate more or less 18:09:51 <springmeyer> sure. done it a few times 18:10:12 <springmeyer> should make it all easier right? 18:10:17 <Ruffiano> yeah 18:10:20 <springmeyer> or are you saying more challenging? 18:10:29 <springmeyer> yeah 18:10:32 <Ruffiano> easier 18:10:52 <springmeyer> you can save built images right, as well for others to use? 18:11:49 <Ruffiano> yep, limited to 10gigs, probably could have put most of the mapnik stuff on image to restore for later use, but just getting in the habit of throwing everything on the /mnt partition 18:12:08 <springmeyer> ah, gocha 18:37:35 *** Ruffiano has parted #mapnik () 18:57:20 <dukeku> springmeyer: what units are min_distance in for textsymbolizers? 18:57:28 <crschmidt> pixels, I believe. 18:58:39 <dukeku> does it apply to the entire polyline or just the segment? 19:04:23 <CIA-23> mapnik-utils: cmarqu42 * r575 /sandbox/cascadenik/hike_n_bike/ (46 files in 4 dirs): Render some of the way symbols in the Dresdner Heide. 19:32:48 *** artem_ has quit () 19:34:19 *** artem (n=artem@i-83-67-142-225.freedom2surf.net) has joined #mapnik 19:57:06 *** sanjiv has quit (Connection timed out) 19:59:36 *** sanjiv (n=chatzill@59.180.132.122) has joined #mapnik 20:01:36 *** kunitoki (n=kraken@host217-241-dynamic.44-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #mapnik 20:33:25 *** sanjiv has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.6/2009020911]") 20:53:49 *** artem has quit () 21:22:52 *** kunitoki has quit ("Lost terminal") 21:25:17 *** artem (n=artem@i-83-67-142-225.freedom2surf.net) has joined #mapnik 21:34:27 *** racicot has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 2.0.0.21pre/2009020912]") 22:09:02 <CIA-23> mapnik: dane * r966 /trunk/SConstruct: scons:reformat the custom boost and mapnik version checking cpp snippets, since on gcc 4.1.1 the existing formatting was causing 'no newline at end of file' warnings 23:01:23 *** artem has quit () 23:19:10 *** jamierob has quit ("Leaving")